911 Interview: Instructor, AP, Mike, Man & Woman

Instructor: Good, good. So, 911 was called excellent. Get that part of it rolling. Three minutes doesn’t start until that call is made. How long did you feel in those rooms? I understand we’re all busy. I know my roommates, in particular, I’m sure all four are the same. There’s a lot going on. Barricade the room, do all these other things, first aid. So, you’re doing all that and then kind of the dust settled and then we’re just kinda standing there. He’s banging on doors and kinda getting us amped up every once in a while [10:54:11] but we’re just standing there. I know a lot of you in my room are looking back at me like, “Come on man, didn’t we do everything?” “What? Let’s go, you know, tick tack.” So, are the rooms that way?

Mike: Yeah.

Instructor: Where’s AP?

AP: Yes.

Instructor: What was the time in that scenario?

AP: Three minutes 11 seconds.

Instructor: So, when he shot the guns off he came right here to the door of the library and started his timer and he called red at [10:54:41] three minutes. It’s like we talked about yesterday. Three minutes sounds fast but it’s an eternity when you’re involved in it.

Woman: I can’t imagine if you were the only adult.

Instructor: Yeah, that’s my next actually discussion. So, we’ve talked about it several times in the last couple days, you’ll do it when you do your all staff training, wherever it is that you’re gonna do that. It’s a group of adults working together to get this done. It has to be done that way because our staff needs to understand the concepts before we can start to take it to our students, or in this case, our instructors need to understand the concepts before you [10:55:11] take it to the employees. It’s a step by step process. So, today’s task of this scenario with a lot going on, certainly a little bit easier when you’re talking to other adults. Now, throw yourself if you’re for the teachers in the room, or for admin that are going to be teaching teachers, throw yourself in that position where it’s you and students. Incredibly difficult to do and it might be that you’ve got students so young that you’re going to be pretty much doing it all. So, you’ve got to understand what the priorities are in this case. Not the priorities [10:55:41] of what’s most important because of course saving this life is most important, the injured student, but the priorities of what you need to do, and what should we probably do first? If that’s your scenario, and you’ve got a bunch of kindergarteners and you’re the teacher, what is the first thing you’re probably doing? Is it the tourniquet part? Is it securing the door part?

Together: Securing the door.

Instructor: I would agree with that. Deny access, don’t let more victims be created. So, these might be the decisions that you’ll have to make because you are the only adult there. So, [10:56:11] as hard as it will be to not wanna help little Susie here that just got shot or stabbed, whatever, injured extremely badly in the classroom, you’ve gotta get the door secured, or else if he or she comes back, now, we’ve got 10 more little Susie’s injured. So, get the door secured, have your plan in place. I know you’ve heard that before and you’re gonna keep hearing it, have your plan. If it’s a chair, if it’s a closet, if it’s a PVC pipe, whatever it is, have your plan and be familiar with it so that when it’s time to actually kick into action, because you’re that person that does teach kindergarten, you know that [10:56:11] ahead of time. Kindergarten is no surprise for you. So, you understand if this day ever comes, that they could do very little to help you. I’m not gonna say they can’t help because we’ll talk later about how even the youngest ones can help. But they can certainly do less than a group of high school students. So, get the door secured, understand your system, get it in place. That can be done very, very quickly, as we’ve seen, and now you’ve got the first aid to go deal with as you’re calling 911. There’s a lot on your plate in that situation where you don’t have a bunch of adults or older kids to help you. If you [10:57:11] do have the middle school or high school, then by all means, and you’ve got helping hands that can help with a lot of this stuff. So, it’s a difficult position all this is. It’s uncomfortable, it’s all the words uncomfortable you can come up with. We completely agree with that but we’ve got all be ready for this day because whether it’s uncomfortable or not, this day could come. So, we’ve gotta be ready, our staffs gotta be ready, our students need to be ready. To Mike, I pass.

Mike: I got nothing man, you’re the man.

Woman: I got a question.

Instructor: Yes ma’am.

Woman: So, if [10:57:41] let’s say, administrator, things go on, we’re in the hallway, we’re not even in a classroom, so, what’s our first? Do we go into a classroom? Do arraign… You know, what? You know, I’m not even close to the office, let’s say where the PA is. So, you know, we’ve got people out.

Mike: You have your walkie talkie on?

Woman: Mmm-hmm.

Mike: Okay. These are tough because these are not… I can’t tell you what [10:58:11] you’re gonna do or you’re gonna do or you’re gonna do.

Woman 2: Well, am I taking cover in a classroom? Or how am I…

Mike: If you can get into one, it depends on how you leave your doors. And this is the hard part with this is it depends on how you leave yourselves when you’re not in that classroom. “Is my door open? Is my door closed and locked that I would even be able to get into it if I was out.” So, that’s something you’re gonna have to figure out there. You obviously have to get, we call it to get off the X, you gotta get out of the line of fire [10:58:41] in order to start making those notifications. And then if I am inside the rooms, I definitely wanna be getting the door secured at a minimum first and then try to get information out to everybody else as quickly as I can. One thing that we haven’t hit on and I’ve gotten better with this is the administrative assistants up in the front offices. I’m still in that secretary phase that I’ve been spanked several times. So, administrative assistants, one thing we can do, we’re running out [10:59:11] a lot of time, but towards the end, if you all want, we can kinda just take a quick trip up to the office and look around that front office area a little bit, because you’re gonna get several questions on that and we haven’t hit a lot in that since we’ve been here. So, we can touch more on what that’s looking like there. Plus, you’re gonna have some renovations here shortly which you’re gonna create what we call the man traps in moving forward. So, definitely depending on what you have, if I’m in the hallway and I’m hearing it [10:59:41] further down, I’m probably trying to get on right away and let everyone know we’ve got shots fired in the building and then get that thing transition into a full lockdown at that point while I’m moving, I can do two things at once at that point. If my shooter is there, I obviously gotta get out of the line of fire. This is gonna be nothing or if anything, you click it and let it be heard. I mean, you saw that in Sandy Hook where it was actually the nurse flipped the switch and the PA actually heard the rounds being fired. So [11:00:11] that was enough right off initially for everyone to hear that.

Instructor: Let’s do that what Mike is talking about kinda even more generally you just got is the answer for you and you and you, all of you that are bosses and administrators that feel that responsibility. The answer, I can tell you from our standpoint, and I imagine from your school districts as well, personal protection is the priority for everybody. When this thing kicks off, we’re all on equal ground. Bullets are flying, you need to save yourself. I understand that that sounds selfish, but this is why, [11:00:41] if everybody is trained equally and everybody is saving themselves, then nobody’s in a position to be able to become a victim. That being said, for those of you in administrative roles, supervisory roles, security roles, as this develops and the dust settles, even after a short time period, then you become when we start showing up, you’re an asset to me. You know your building, you have access, you have all these things that I need. So, if you stayed in the hallway to try to be a hero, because you felt like you should as an administrator, and became a victim, and you’re no good to me, and I can’t use you to save more people. So, personal protection needs to be a priority for everybody and then the other thing starts kicking in with especially the information very, very quickly thereafter. If you can do both at the same time, then obviously, you wanna do that.

Mike: Take people with you, custodians. [11:01:30] We were talking this morning, you know, what is their actual job? Well, if I know my exits, and I’ve got kids that I can take with me, then I’m trying to take who I can to get out when I go. I mean, [11:01:40] it’s just I would call it common sense because I’ve done it but if I can get people and go, why would I not just get them and go. I’m not getting into the rooms because I already know most of you are gonna secure them. So, why waste my time on that? Or that’s why we train the kids because you don’t want the kids wasting a ton of time trying to get in because most people shouldn’t open the door. You might not like that but…

Man: That was my… The classrooms I get it. [11:02:10] My wife’s a teacher too so we were talking about this elementary situation. There are kids in the bathroom and it goes off. So, you’re saying personal protection, totally agree with it. I said, “Hey, secure the kids in your classroom, lock the door.” She was told to go out check the restrooms and then get back in. So, is there a…

Mike: Why don’t you let me set that up for you?

Instructor: Where is she teaching? North District?

Man: No.

Instructor: Okay. Phew, just making sure what district for all we’re about to say. [11:02:46]

Mike: Is it in St. Louis County?

Man: No.

Mike: Then we’re good.

Instructor: Probably poor advice and poor direction. Not even probably that’s poor advice. Well, the teacher goes out there and gets shot on the way to the bathroom, now you got kids in the bathroom unprotected.

Man: Exactly.

Instructor: Or maybe a superintendent supportive would be good.

Mike: Think of it this way. Hold on one thing, think about this before Desi answers this and normally I throw this out early on in the training. How many of you have little ones? Kindergarteners, first graders, second? I mean, they’re all precious, don’t get me wrong. [11:03:21] The older ones can kinda fend for themselves at a certain point. So, you’ve got this… How many do you have in a class? 25, 30? 25? Give me the number I’ll make you happy.

Man: 25.

Mike: Because I’m about to upset you. So, 25 kids in the class, you send Johnny to the office, while Johnny is going to the office, you hear shots, you hear [11:03:40] Johnny screaming, everybody else in the classroom, you secure the door, you hear Johnny running back down the hallway along with these shots coming closer and closer and closer. Johnny’s at your door banging on the door trying to get in, do you open the door? Do you leave the door closed?

Together: Closed.

Mike: And the shots are getting louder and you hear him screaming outside?

Woman: The right answer is probably what your heart says.

Mike: Well, I know what everybody’s heart says but what’s your answer?

Woman: You can’t just leave him out there.

Mike: And here’s the thing though, again [11:04:10] 29 or there were 30 kids before, there’s 29 more in there, do you opening that door sacrifice 29 for one. Now, don’t look at it as hate towards me, look at it as the reality of a question that you could be faced with. Not that I would even ask you this because we wanna live in this fantasy world that this will never happen. The real world why we’re doing training like [11:04:40] this is that we have to start thinking about the facts. And the facts are you could have two or three kids banging on the door after it’s already secured and shots outside. My argument to make you feel somewhat better, so you don’t have to answer this question because your hearts are telling you, “I’m opening that door” but you gotta think about the other kids you have there similar to the bathroom. And most of you would not leave that room to go down to that [11:05:10] bathroom, especially if you didn’t know 100% they were even there. Our argument is that if you train the kids, they shouldn’t be banging on the doors, they should be at a minimum getting to an exit and out to a rally point and they don’t need you for that. So, that’s why we owe you by training the kids and doing more training, they should not be doing that so you have to answer that question. Would it probably happen? Yes. Do I think you could do a quick sweep of the area before you [11:05:40] close the door? Yeah, I’ll give you that. However, if that guy’s walking down that hallway or girl with that rifle like they were today, and some of you had to go out to close that door today, it is a very uncomfortable feeling. So, I don’t know how many people you’re gonna be looking for. If you can grab ’em, you grab ’em, but are you willing to leave ’em laying on the floor to get that door closed? And that’s really something you’re gonna have to ask yourself when the time comes to make that decision. [11:06:10]

Instructor: I don’t know. I don’t know if you mentioned it but in that whole scenario that he just gave you, did anybody consider the fact that little Johnny’s the shooter?

Woman: I didn’t consider that but I did consider the shooter was having him bang on the door.

Instructor: There you go.

Mike: There you go.

Instructor: That’s a possibility too, right? So, understand these things when it’s not as easy as just saying, “Well, open the door and let him in.” You very well might be letting the attacker in. That might be the attacker. It didn’t start till he left. We’ve seen [11:06:40] students go to bathroom and come back. That was the last one. Went to the bathroom, came back shooting. That was the Illinois one. So, things to consider.

Mike: Again, bring it up, have that discussion.

Woman: So, if our kids are in the hallway, do we just tell them if doors are closed, get out, go to the rally point or do we say try a door?

Mike: I’m not gonna tell you exact. I don’t wanna… Well, I think I said it yesterday if I could give you this piece of paper that had all these little checkboxes, or you could click on [11:07:10] your phone, and it would tell’ya, it’d be perfect. I’m not saying you can’t try door because maybe you actually find one that’s unlocked and they go right into the drills that we’re using, or maybe a door is open and they can get into that versus getting away. I’d be good with that. If that’s not happening, how long am I waiting going down every door to try to get in? If it’s open, I’m going in. If it’s locked, I’m probably shooting off towards… Shooting? What a great word. I’m probably running towards an exit [11:07:40] so that I could get away and get to a rally point. But that comes with training and conditioning year after year after year, it’s not gonna be reinforced right off the bat. So, hopefully, that helps answer your question.

Instructor: Your comments and then…

Man: We talked about that with our kids and our staff of not opening the door because in our video it showed the girl trying to get in the door it’s shut, it’s shut for a reason. And so, we did the same thing as that person could be the shooter. So, we’re like, “Don’t unlock the door.”

Mike: You don’t have to sell me in. You’re gonna have to sell the 600 other staff members out there that now have to make that decision.

Man: You don’t know if you have a hostage situation.

Instructor: Here you go. Desi or Jeff, you wanna chime in on…? This is a good example of you know, teachers out there being told to make the classroom.

Man: I think part of what we’re doing is trying to make sure people know that, you know, part of empowerment can be scary too. Because sometimes, you know, I’ve worked with some staffs who are just like, “Tell me exactly what to do” and sometimes people there is a certain level of comfort in just barricade or just turn the lights off. You know, that way I don’t have to make a decision. But, you know, from what we’ve been learning the last two days and over time, circumstances change, and people understand that’s not the best practice necessarily. So, in a situation where we have a kid that was dismissed, that decision making and thinking that’s why we’re doing this kind of work because you gotta be thinking about it a lot. And the more people think about it, the more prepared they are. I mean, you can’t be prepared for everything that’s gonna happen but when there’s a kid, maybe down the hallway in the restroom, and you hear something, that may be a totally different conversation, depending on that educate part. What you know, what you learn, what your circumstances are. I really think that if the Pops would have been like from way up the hallway, I think most of the teachers would probably be peeking their head out, they wouldn’t have immediately be barricading their door. I mean, I think that would be a natural reaction. I think for administrator standpoint, I think a lot of them were gonna go to that noise at first. That’s gonna be the natural thing until they actually see what it is. I mean and even then, I think it’ll take a second before you know what respond to use, you’re in that processing, “Am I really seeing this? Is this really happening? And then what?” So, I do think it depends on the circumstances but we wanna give people to think about it so they can make decisions based on that. The kid outside the door is I agree with Mike on that. I hate to agree with Mike on certain things.

Mike: You did.

Man: But when it comes down to it, I think that is one of those things that you look at where you are in the stages of locking your door too. If you have the handle that you can snap a kid right in like that and you know that that threat is two classrooms down even and you haven’t already blocked up that door, that might be a whole different scenario too. If you’ve got, you know, access, where you’re pulling kids out, some classrooms in some places have another door that goes outside. So, if you’re shuffling kids out already, that might be a whole different circumstance too, where your kids are, you know, how secure they are. So, there’s not a right answer. I mean, it is all based on making decisions in circumstances.

Instructor: That’s right. Here’s what we’re gonna do, we will have time, I know this discussion goes on for days, believe me, we will have time during our working lunch, we will be sitting in here taking care of a few tasks, but a lot of these conversations will come up, because we’re gonna talk about things on the desk, we’re gonna talk about a lot. So, we will have more discussion time. But we need to get moving on as we are right now because I’m big on the timetable. So, here’s 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

Man: 30.

Mike: 20 minutes would be great.

Instructor: The first group you’re in for the first aid, forget about those, you’re done with that. We are going back to our original five groups for the scenarios and that’s where you’ll be for the rest of the day. So, let’s compromise, we’ve got 25. So, 11:35. We want your scenarios ready to roll, ready to conduct those. You will have Matt and AP available for any questions, concerns. They’re gonna ask questions to make sure it kinda keeps you in certain lanes for these things. 11:35 we’ll be back in here and do we have an order yet or we’ll determine it then?

Mike: Now figure it out.

Instructor: We’ll figure out an order on who goes first. We’ll try to get one hopefully.

Woman: And then where else we want the safety officer.

Woman: I assume [crosstalk 11:15:13]

Woman: Yeah.

Woman: Do we wanna people coming out of the building or do we wanna people coming out of the woods? They may go to all those places.

[inaudible 11:15:25]

Woman: Role players? [inaudible 11:15:30]

Man Being the shooter.

Woman: Being the shooter. And then [11:15:37] we’re gonna do the safety checks.

Man: You’ve gotta get [inaudible 11:15:46]

Woman: I think so.

Woman: We’re gonna need role players because people definitely play that. We have all needs.

Woman: Yeah, and the cap gone.

Woman: Stress balls, I think we could use. We don’t have a lot of things to throw but we have…

Woman: We have rocks.

Woman: We have rocks.

Woman: Ours are not rocks. [crosstalk 11:16:09]

Woman: To me engage is not an option on the playground. There’s nothing. We can hit them with a douche ball. I don’t think there’s anything there that’s gonna actually…

Woman: Here’s the problem with the escape, there’s a fence. Those are just tree lines we can’t remember now.

Woman: There’s some opening.

Woman: There’s some opening.

Man: Is there a way around? Can you get all the way around?

Woman: Yes, you gotta go behind the dumpsters believe me.

Woman: The issue is all of our buildings [11:16:42] are locked down with only one entrance and that’s the front door. But the teachers have a key when they go outside the recess but everything’s locked down. Kids can’t just get in the building. And that’s common in our district.

Woman: So, if it’s a lunch recess they might be able to get back in the cafeteria door.

Man: So, what do you need? Figure out what may not happen in real life. Build your scenario you want. So, if you want it to be [11:17:12] just escape then that’s what you’re trying to teach in your scenario. If you want engage as an option, I don’t know the age of the kids, it may be an option but don’t worry about what may or may not be an option in real life. Realize what you wanna teach in your scenario.

Woman: So, a scenario here would probably be engage or not engage.

Woman: Escape.

Woman: Escape.

Woman: We want them to take cover or run away. Well, they can hide behind the dumpster, they can hide…

Woman: But I would want them to be able to get back in the building.

Man: You’re never gonna be able [inaudible 11:17:47]

Woman: Secure.

Woman: So, it’s mainly an escape.

Woman: So kind of like on a bigger scale from the classroom down once the classroom is locked down to limit collateral damage, you don’t reopen that door. Is it the same thing with the building? You have a group of kids outside…

Man: The building is secured.

Woman: If the building is secure then, in theory, they shouldn’t come back inside.

Woman: Right because in theory that might be the idea for the guide to get into the building. You close the door so that [crosstalk 11:18:21]

Man: When you’re doing your scenario and this is why building a scenario is not easy. Figure out your goal and then build your scenario to that goal and then you work it out from there. If you start with getting to the playground, what are all my options, then you’re never gonna be able to coordinate what you wanna do. They’re gonna come into it with, “All right I have options on the table.” So, if it was the playground you don’t want them to engage. You need to make sure whoever is the shooter or the killer or whatever, however in a position to give a level close enough to be engaged.

Woman: So, they stay at the tree line may be?

Man: Or just walking towards the plan.

Man: We forgot you need about 10 feet away and understand that I’m never gonna make it there in time. So, build out from your goal.

Woman: It’s like you said, they’re engaging more in like a lockdown. You won’t be able to [11:19:53]

Man: I did have a question.

Woman: It would really be escape and then the teaching points when we cover during the briefing, this is what we wanna tell them during the briefings. Think about everything that they told us during the briefings. They never told us that we’re gonna be the teacher and we’re gonna do this X, Y, and Z. So, we’re not gonna tell them that one of you are gonna be the playground aid and you need to do X, Y, and Z. We need to put them in a situation that they’re going to have to think through themselves. So, to tell them that they’re the aid is…

Woman: Hmm.

Man: No, we can put them out there and say you pick who’s in charge.

Woman: Right. So, you can do that but you can’t say you’re the aid and you’re going to hear a gunshot. Because if you do that, then you gave them the whole situation. So then why are we doing this? So, think about the things that they taught us and the things that they told us the very beginning. And what did they gave us this much information to go this far web? Because then we had to think through the whole situation.

Woman: So, when you’re breathing all you need to tell them [11:20:57] you’re on recess.

Woman: You’re on recess.

Woman: Two recess that’s duty day.

Woman: Two recess duty days. And you need to tell them where is safe place. You need to tell them where their safe place is.

Woman: At lunchtime, it would just plain Mondays.

Woman: How many playground each?

Woman: Not everyone has a teacher.

Woman: And you don’t tell them anything else.

Man: Right, that’s a good word. Safe spaces. [inaudible 11:21:42] [11:21:42]

Woman: But where do we want the rally point to be for this

Woman: For them, I really think it should be in front of the building.

Woman: They said there is [crosstalk 11:21:55]

Man: Yes, where’s the playground.

Man: On the side of the building.

Man: Do you guys have your role players?

Man: There’s one of them in the playgrounds. [11:22:32]

Woman: One of them.

Man: It’s up to you guys, it doesn’t matter.

Man: They make it to either one of these spots in the playground.

Woman: So, we’re gonna have one on either side on the far end of…

Woman: We can go look at it.

Woman: Towards the building. So, both of those corners.

Woman: Corners on the playground.

Woman: Yeah.

Woman: One thing about what they didn’t hear towards the hallway was trying to get them out of the way. Because if we’re [crosstalk]

Woman: But for this scenario.

Woman: So, is one of our teaching points that if you see someone suspicious, you wanna start moving the kids away from them regardless of whether or not you see a gun. I think that’s one of the teaching point in the debriefing. So, what’s the difference between the debriefing and the debriefing? Is the briefing prior and the debriefing after?

Woman: So yeah, there could be some. So those are safety points. And the second thing probably be our rally point. And we’ll use the concrete pad and the corner.

Woman: I think we need to tell them they have to get on the plane.

Woman: You want them on the ground.

Woman: On the pit level, yeah.

Woman: Be specific [crosstalk]

Woman: Actually get physically on the equipment, I would say.

Woman: Could they be out there in the field?

Woman: Well, standing out there. They could have someone on the field.

Woman: Yeah, we do field too.

Woman: Like down and the field, split themselves up. At the beginning, we need to tell them about the trend in a way.

Woman: And then role players. The only role player we have as a shooter. Is there any other role player.

Woman: We have to have somebody that searches them as they go outside.

Man: We need someone on the other end of a walking sake. Do you need information from the blank room?

Man: And asking questions.

Woman: And asking questions for an office walkie or?

Woman: Yeah, it would probably be your admin assistant in your office that would be on the opposite end.

Woman: With the walkie. [crosstalk] here’s your walkie, here’s your talkie because that’s what we’re doing.

Woman: In the other role players.

Woman: They might be expecting something coming from us but actually it would be done giving us the information. [crosstalk]

Woman: No, no.

Woman: He said everybody has to have a role, we’ll assign. So, we need to make sure every single one of us has one.

Woman: Well, I think we’re gonna need people a couple of places on the hill because the hill is wide. The hill covers the whole spectrum. And then, explainers, the briefing, the teaching points, and the briefing, And then somebody to cover the debriefing.


Man: Okay, never mind.

Woman: Can I ask it’s my understanding [inaudible]

Woman: So, you have somebody do the briefing at the beginning and you will have people take the debriefing.


Man: That’ll work. put that on the role.

I think so.

Woman: So, we just have to decide who’s gonna do what. So who wants the stairs?

Woman: Actually I like to do the walking.

Woman: I know, I was thinking about that too.

Woman: Because I want to ask questions and when I want to start giving the answers.

Woman: What our admin assistants would say. Yes, that’s exactly right.

Woman: One is the admin assistant and one is a principal.

Woman: You’re both kinda having a walkie and technically…

Woman: I don’t know if that’s helpful in this scenario.

Man: You’re gonna be stepping on each other.

Woman: I would say for the purpose of the scenario, I’d have it be one person.

Woman: Anybody wanna do the stairs?

Woman: I’ll take the stairs, that’s fine.

Woman: And then the hill, we need three people.

Man: I’ll do it.

Man: Who’s gonna be the sheriff.

Woman: You’re the sheriff.

Man: I’ll do that both.

Woman: And then Meghan.

Woman: Meghan.

Woman: I can do that.

Woman: And then rally point?

Man: I’ll take one.

Man: I can take one.

Woman: Okay, mane?

Man: Dean.

Woman: Dean.

Man: Allan.

Woman: Allan. And then safety search?

Woman: I can do safety search.

Man: It doesn’t necessarily have to be one person. I heard the safety officers. We can all help. I was gonna say we’re on the stairs and on the hill after we done the safety search if that makes sense.

Woman: And the people in the hall. [crosstalk]

Man: Just keep them from going that way.

Woman: Can we talk about who is doing the briefing and the debriefing.

Woman: Yeah, I’ll do the briefing.

Woman: And you are?

Woman: I’m Chris,

Woman: I don’t if that’s single k.

Woman: It’s C.

Woman: And then so do we have… everyone have a role?

Woman: And then who’s doing the debriefing?

Woman: I guess, can you do it both?

Woman: Christian can you do it both or is that not allowed?

Woman: Can you do it.

Woman: I’ll do it, I really don’t care. Sophie will do it.

Woman: And I bet I’ll try them anyway. I was gonna say that that’ll what are the teaching points to cover in the debriefing. So, we need to talk about what we really want to hit on.

Woman: The number one is the alertness to the fact that there’s someone to start escaping, you know what I mean?

Woman: I mean, if this was with our teachers, that whole active supervision…

Woman: And awareness of somebody coming on and getting the escape.

Man: So, what was their thought process and how they decided to escape? Did they just take off? Did they gather students? You know, you’re wanting them to provide you the information to reflect so you don’t necessarily have to have that. You just wanna them to reflect on what happened to bring up the discussion. So, just kind of with what was our thought process of an escapee.

Woman: And there may be why they chose not to engage and engaging.

Woman: Why did they choose to go the way the chose?

Woman: We discussed with him too but isn’t the teaching points debriefing kind of what we wanted them to get out of it as well? So like, number one communication. Did you communicate on your walkie as soon as it happened? Number two…

Woman: Is communication really number one or is escape number one and awareness to start escaping? I’m just asking I don’t know the answer.

Man: It’s not important.

Woman: It’s not in order.

Man: [inaudible] on the debrief .

Woman: And then your aids actually whether they seen what was going on. So, that’d be two. And then three, did everyone get to the rally point where you’re supposed to go? That’d be your third one, right? And those are the three things you’re wanting them to do. You want them to see it happen. You want them to communicate, and then you want them to escape to where they’re supposed to go. Correct?

Man: You have to use the steps, can you run up the hill?

Woman: The reason either we don’t want them to do either but really that’s where that if they do then that was a mistake that needs to be fixed.

Woman: They may choose to run into the building and that’s gonna have to crack.

Woman: And that’s gonna have to, I mean, we don’t have to discuss… So, I think the debriefing is gonna be why did you choose escape and not evading.

Woman: Because they don’t know that. We’re not gonna tell them, right?

Man: So, your objective may be one thing that when you give the brief what are you gonna tell them? You tell them their role in the option is what your objective is? Well, then they’re just gonna automatic and they’ll hope… you know I’m saying?

Woman: Right.

Man: So, you let them, you know… you have a goal in mind and then in your brief, you’re gonna let them know what options are on the table.

Woman: And if they did go to the door, we could say, “Okay, but it wasn’t long.” It’s like, “You just lost.”

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